What counts as a 'Sword'?

[Rumiko]

Is there any sort of definition of what a character may use as a weapon in Duel of Swords? I know often times, strange weapons can come into use in the rings, but is there a line that must be drawn?

I ask both out of curiosity, and because I am hoping to start competing in DoS soon myself. As a character with a general 'steampunk' style background, I have several ideas for customized, unique 'swords', but many of them involve moving parts, gears, etc. I do not mind if there are in-character rumblings about it being unfair, but if there is a rule about it, or could be rules about it, I would certainly like to know ahead of time. Better to just use a standard sword if such is the case.

Thank you to anyone who can clear this issue up for me, I just wanted to steer clear of any trouble or confusion when the time comes to step into the rings.

[Tormay Eludes]

I don't think there is a rule at all when it comes to weapons in 'swords' matches.

I have seen, heard of, called matches for, and even used quite a few not swords. Brooms, mallets, pistols, cue sticks, some people even just pull on a pair of gloves and call it a weapon. A few nights ago, Skid used salad tongs...

[Napoleon Bonarat]

Steampunk sounds pretty cool!

I'm not a fan of projectile weapons. It's one thing to sidestep or parry a sword. It's another trying to do that with bolts or bullets.

[G]

Yeah, anything can pretty much be used in swords. Nerf swords have been used, furniture. There was a duelist who thought it'd be funny to use G as weapon. Someone used the letter T, and Slothy even used the arm of a former duelist. Kinda imagine that if it could be used in any Final Fantasy game, it could be used here.

I, too, frown on projectile weapons. My opinion is that while they're not in the realm of the ridiculous like nerf swords or arms are, they're just presenting an unrealistic unfair advantage in the ring. I've always likened DoS as sort of a Fencing Match. And in a realistic fencing match you can easily use anything as a weapon to replace a sword, but if someone used a revolver, their opponent wouldn't even have a chance.

And I like Steampunk too. G's partial steampunk now.

[Rumiko]

Alright, thank you all for the responses! I am now significantly more confident that I will not be thrown from the rings, as I had no intentions of using any projectile weapons. Just ridiculous variations on swords and off-handed daggers.

...And anyone who calls foul will be deemed a sore-loser! So I decree!

[G]

Just remember, some characters don't "do" silly. One of mine doesn't, that's for sure. She's completely serious without a sense of humor at all.

Not to say that I don't, cause I do.. just forewarning ya.

[Laylla Angel]

All depends

One of mine has battle guantlets with retractable blades. She also has a long sword if she feels the person is worth of such an honor

My other alt uses a pair of twin daggers. This one uses a standard sword.

With Friends I've been know to use a Nerf N-Force Sword.

[Rumiko]

Just remember, some characters don't "do" silly. One of mine doesn't, that's for sure. She's completely serious without a sense of humor at all.

Not to say that I don't, cause I do.. just forewarning ya.

Ah, no, no, I completely understand that. Perhaps I misspoke by saying 'ridiculous', because silly is not what I had envisioned at all. Rumiko generally lacks much of a sense of humor herself, and her weapon is serious business when it comes to murdering pirates on airships.

Again, thank you all for your feedback. I will hopefully get the chance to catch some of you tonight, perhaps on the other end of my blade.

[Xenograg]

Shakira the Catdemoness used to duel with just her claws.

[Leuni]

Claws... attached to hand like appendages. Wouldn't that be more like DoF type of fighting? You know... hand to hand.

[G]

Claws... attached to hand like appendages. Wouldn't that be more like DoF type of fighting? You know... hand to hand.

Think "Lady Deathstrike" from X-Men 2: Wolverines Return. Less hand to hand than you'd think.

[Neo Eternity]

You can use plain old fists and feet in a swords duel if you want. I know Cory Havoick used to do that sometimes (if I'm not mixing up my old duelists), and Jin did so tonight.

[Leuni]

You can use plain old fists and feet in a swords duel if you want. I know Cory Havoick used to do that sometimes (if I'm not mixing up my old duelists), and Jin did so tonight.

See, this is where I have a problem. We've got these different duels set up and some really don't adhere to them. Yes it's been done but should it have been? I don't think so. The DoF move, in a duel being scored by DoS rules, should've forfeited the duel.

If a player is stating the character is using their fists in a sword duel.. how does this compute from an OOC stand? The moves are set up with melee weapons in mind to score one against another move... How is score kept when the moves cross dueling types? Where is this at?

Regardless of OOC scoring... just the RP of a duel should honor the seperation of the duels.

I can see other melee weapons in a sword duel, even something else's ripped off arm or leg if used like a melee weapon. But their own fists or feet? No... Magic spells? no. Ranged weapons? no. Mixing them unbalances the duel.

If the duels are not kept seperate by the fighting style, what's the point in having the different duels?

[Leuni]

Claws... attached to hand like appendages. Wouldn't that be more like DoF type of fighting? You know... hand to hand.

Think "Lady Deathstrike" from X-Men 2: Wolverines Return. Less hand to hand than you'd think.

And Holy Spear fingers Batman! Somebody get that girl a manicure! Fast!

[Goldglo]

See, this is where I have a problem. We've got these different duels set up and some really don't adhere to them. Yes it's been done but should it have been? I don't think so. The DoF move, in a duel being scored by DoS rules, should've forfeited the duel.

If a player is stating the character is using their fists in a sword duel.. how does this compute from an OOC stand? The moves are set up with melee weapons in mind to score one against another move... How is score kept when the moves cross dueling types? Where is this at?

We have different duel games, yes, but the moves for each don't cross over. In other words, the person fighing with their fists and feet in DoS still use DoS moves and how they choose to roleplay their fight is up to them. For instance, a Lowcut could be RP'ed as a sweep, a thrust could be RP'ed as a punch, etc. Dueling with no weapon (or gauntlets, or sap gloves, or <insert weapon here>) is perfectly fine from an RP standpoint. Sure, the person wearing gauntlets would be, in theory, at a severe range disadvantage when dueling a person wielding a staff, broadsword, or a whip. But perhaps they use speed and dexterity to get around the slower-swinging weapons, etc.

Regardless of OOC scoring... just the RP of a duel should honor the seperation of the duels.

IC, there's a rule in DoF (though I don't believe it's part of the OOC ruleset) that duelers cannot wield weapons like swords, pistols, etc. within the rings (things like brass knuckles, etc. have been used by some characters). I don't believe there is a 'must have a weapon to enter the ring' rule in DoS.

Also, while I do understand the above argument, what happens if a dueler's disarmed in the midst of a DoS match? Let's say they throw their weapon at their opponent, or lose their grip and are left only with their arms and legs as weapons? Should the character automatically forefit the match because they no longer have a weapon and will likely be RP'ed as either trying to get their weapon back or as continuing the duel without it?

I can see other melee weapons in a sword duel, even something else's ripped off arm or leg if used like a melee weapon. But their own fists or feet? No... Magic spells? no. Ranged weapons? no. Mixing them unbalances the duel.

If the duels are not kept seperate by the fighting style, what's the point in having the different duels?

While ranged weapons don't make too much OOC sense (at least to me) in DoS, since we're all engaged in cooperative FFRP, the roleplay can accomodate their existence. Maybe the guy with the pistol is an awful shot; maybe the character with a broadsword swings so slowly because of the weapon's weight, the character with no weapon or a very small weapon can strike faster. The duel itself isn't unbalanced from a game perspective since both players are still playing within the specific DoX matrix. It's up to the players, in a spirit of cooperative roleplay, to play together in the circumstances. For instance, if a weapon-wielding character refuses to duel another character because they won't bring a weapon into a DoS ring, that's an entirely plausible IC thing. But game-mechanics wise, regardless of the roleplayed weapon-choice (or lack thereof), each player's just as likely to win the duel as the other.

As far as the point of having the different duels, it's a gameplay thing. Each game brings its own set of moves, strategy, and roleplay options (especially where challengable ranks and title are concerned) that are entirely unique to each game and ruleset. Some people prefer one game over another; some flourish in one matrix and not another. The roleplay possibilities are endless within each of the games, but we as players often have our favorites, or the games we prefer because of comfort level, style, stragtegy options, or a host of other reasons.

The roleplayed choice of weapons, fighting style, etc. is up to the individual player. As another player, it's up to me to choose how my character would react and respond. We're all here to play together, engage in cooperative roleplay, and enjoy the games. Gameplay wise, we're all on the same playing field, playing within the same rules and matrices, regardless of what weapons our characters do or don't bring into the dueling rings.

--Matt