IFL Hiatus

[Corlanthis]

Simple. If you feel burnt out, don't join a league or dueling event that pops up. You didn't have to join all three last year. Participation might be lower for the event, but no one should shame or blame anyone for not feeling like joining something or "not helping the community". DoG, new leagues and tournaments, etc. Nothing is stopping them from popping up, if they find the participation and interest then it's all well and good. If they host it during another league / event, it might be seen as rude, but interest will dictate who goes where.

To piggy back on this - it comes down to choice. If everything runs, players have the choice to do everything, do some events, or do no events.

If events get staggered, players like me have no choice. I wait until what I want to do comes back around, you know, years later.

[JewellRavenlock]

Simple. If you feel burnt out, don't join a league or dueling event that pops up. You didn't have to join all three last year. Participation might be lower for the event, but no one should shame or blame anyone for not feeling like joining something or "not helping the community". DoG, new leagues and tournaments, etc. Nothing is stopping them from popping up, if they find the participation and interest then it's all well and good. If they host it during another league / event, it might be seen as rude, but interest will dictate who goes where.

Everyone being so tired from league fighting that regulation completely dies could easily stop new things from popping up.

[Corlanthis]

That's a different conversation though, isn't it?

If people would rather regulation suffers to take place in events, maybe we need to ask ourselves why that is, rather than take away the things people want to do?

[King]

Everyone being so tired from league fighting that regulation completely dies could easily stop new things from popping up.

Then don't participate in every league? Don't join multiple teams during said league and get burnt out even more? This all falls on self control.

Rotation would mean you'd have to wait 2 years for your preferred event with the current 3 leagues. We're talking years here.

Putting the blame on only the leagues shoulders for burnout is shifting the problem away from a players choice when it came to participating or not. I participated in all 3 leagues, my characters went all the way to the finals in Hydra and IFL. I had characters on two teams for each, so that's 2 fights per week. Ragnarok did not allow alts, and that was only 1 fight per week for 3 weeks.

It was my choice to do this, and I sure don't blame leagues for the burnout I felt. I instead blamed myself for not choosing to hold back and linger on one team instead, or maybe not join at all.

[JewellRavenlock]

I didn't blame leagues for burnout. I also said I didn't support rotation.

I am concerned about whether the community, as it is, can support leagues.

[DemiBob]

Just adding --

I think people do feel obligated or compelled to compete in leagues, even when they really don't want to, or they underestimate how much work/stress is involved. Their fault or not.

Also, we should consider the feelings of the people running the leagues. They need breaks, too. I don't know if that's the case this year, but food for thought.

[King]

I didn't blame leagues for burnout.

Everyone being so tired from league fighting that regulation completely dies could easily stop new things from popping up.

Sorry, but that looks like blame is being shifted on to leagues.

As for the community, it will support what interests it. It's a free market, the players will choose where they want to go in the end.

There's always the option of going by popular vote, but that'd easily cause sore feelings should one league be chosen over another.

[King]

Also, we should consider the feelings of the people running the leagues. They need breaks, too. I don't know if that's the case this year, but food for thought.

The solution here would be to allow others to take over for them in times like that. Putting it all on one persons shoulders is never a good idea in the long run.

[JewellRavenlock]

I didn't blame leagues for burnout.

Everyone being so tired from league fighting that regulation completely dies could easily stop new things from popping up.

Sorry, but that looks like blame is being shifted on to leagues.

Nah. Simply expressing that if people are tired from doing leagues and/or don't support regulation to begin with, it could prevent new leagues or similar projects from being created.

That might not be the case though. I always think of those ideas being born from an environment where regulation dueling is thriving. The opposite could be true.

[King]

I didn't blame leagues for burnout.

Everyone being so tired from league fighting that regulation completely dies could easily stop new things from popping up.

Sorry, but that looks like blame is being shifted on to leagues.

Nah. Simply expressing that if people are tired from doing leagues and/or don't support regulation to begin with, it could prevent new leagues or similar projects from being created.

That might not be the case though. I always think of those ideas being born from an environment where regulation dueling is thriving. The opposite could be true.

I look at it like this. Some players don't want to do regulation. They look forward to events like IFL as a reason to come back to this site and have fun. Regulation suffering / thriving means little to them, it's just the event that matters.

Regulation shouldn't be on the shoulders of league coordinators anyway. This is an ROH staff issue. If regulation numbers are an issue, then incentives and events should be thought up. Even player drawn events can bring around players. Harris's Diamond Days event is a good example. DoS barons could offer Squireships for regulation duels, things like that. There's always options to bring something to regulation.

I look at it this way. Before IFL the months of late November -> Mid Feb were usually a very slow time for regulation dueling. The chats weren't really being filled. When IFL returned, sure regulation took a small hit there, but it wasn't as if regulation had much going on for it anyway. What did we get instead? A very nice event and a new room which saw 20-30+ people in there multiple times per week. People were playing, having fun, actually doing more than just showing up to duel. It's what I personally LOVE about IFL. Not the league itself, but how it brings players out; duelists and spectators alike. It's why I will always think highly of Kalamere for bringing us the opportunity, and it's why I felt sad when I read that IFL wouldn't be happening this year.

Hell, I can explain my own dip in dueling this past year. I got my new computer in march and have been playing WoW / FFXIV since, but I've come around lately and gotten a good bunch of duels ( sure a lot of losses in DoM ). Everyone has their own stories when it comes to duel numbers dropping some. Maybe it's burn out, maybe it's a new job, a new baby, or something of the sort.

[Kalamere]

I love seeing how many people enjoy IFL. It always makes me smile and tells me it's a thing worth doing. (Though, as a side note, I also feel compelled to point out that I can take no credit for the league itself. I didn't create it, I was just the guy who wrote the website for it back in the day and picked it up years later when the creator had moved on).

The last thing I wanted to do with my post was to stir up any kind of an argument. Nor, for the record, did I want to make anyone feel like they needed to go sign up for Hydra or participate more in the regulation duels or anything else. No hidden motives on my part. If you don't enjoy the other things, then don't do them. Hydra influenced the timing of the message, because as I said I had heard some folks who might do Hydra, but didn't want to do both, so I wanted to let them know that both wasn't really an option this year anyway. That's just timing though, not the reason for the decision overall.

All I can really say is that in the last year or two, things have felt off in some way. Maybe it's just the normal cycle of things, maybe it's that so many players I enjoyed interacting with have moved on, maybe it's the heavy event stream going all the way back to Hydra 2013 and the burnout that ensued. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but it's been a growing sense.

As the last IFL season came to a close there was a perceptible feeling of relief to be done for a time, followed not too long after by one of dread that Madness was already here. At least that was my take on the community mood.

Several people have made good points about the hiatus being un-necessary, both here and in IM conversations. You may be right that it should just go on as usual. I've certainly been wrong plenty of times in the past. Despite the counter arguments, I still tend to feel that it's the right thing to do right now. Unfortunately, neither side can know for sure until it happens. (or, you know, doesn't).

I'm sorry to be the cause of disappointment. I have ideas on something else I'd like to try down the road, though it falls behind some other site code work I need to do and maybe even finishing the Nature's Warnings story I started like three years ago and haven't touched in forever. Anyway though - hopefully it is some consolation that this is meant to be a single skip year. I have every intention of restarting the league in 2017.

[Sabine]

I will miss IFL thins year. it is the event in 2015 that got me interested in dueling and my first season in 2016 was a blast. I love that it is multiple sports and really everything else about it. It's my favorite event and the one I look forward to.

It will be missed for sure, but you've got to do what you've got to do. Thanks for all your hard work.

[DemiBob]

I will miss IFL thins year. it is the event in 2015 that got me interested in dueling and my first season in 2016 was a blast. I love that it is multiple sports and really everything else about it. It's my favorite event and the one I look forward to.

It will be missed for sure, but you've got to do what you've got to do. Thanks for all your hard work.

Do you mean Hydra? IFL is just fists. Hydra is all sports.

[Goldglo]

Bring back Duel Assassin; that was fun

[Kalamere]

Bring back Duel Assassin; that was fun

That's actually the side project I've been thinking about. It's a completely revamped system and a little more covert, though right now it's all just in my head. I need to write it down and put some code around it to see if what I've been thinking is actually workable.