Arena Factions

[Sylus Kurgen]

This is the idea that I came up with and spoke over with Kal and a few others in private as something to bring a bit more inclusion to all of the ranks.

Factions:
Duelists, ranked Warlord and below can declare a loyalty to one of the Barons or the active Overlord. When a Baron or the Overlord has 3+ supporters present, they all get 1 extra Morale Fancy, which stacks with Squire and Talon Mods up to 4 mods for ranks under Grand Master.

Only usable in regular dueling. Challenges, it's same as always. Baron/OL holds the right to deny loyalty. The declaring of loyalty outside of specific rank requirements is optional. At the start of the next cycle, the faction gets access to the new fancy.

How it works:
Duelist 1 challenges for Barony X, after baron announces alignment, Warlords can announce their loyalty to that baron.

This applies to Overlord as well. When a duelist successfully wins the title of Overlord, the duelists wishing to declare loyalty to the OL may do so along with the Barons.

Each faction can be scattered by the Baron or Overlord being deposed through issued challenge. This starts the process over completely.

Pros- The idea feeds into itself. It’s simple. Presents RP opportunities. Increases relations between all ranks.

Cons- The cycle wait and possibility of the faction being scattered.

[Spell]

... so if I get this right..

Overlord and Baron gain no benefit from this. It's their supporters only?

It's already awkward enough as a caller to read DoF mentors in chat while calling to make sure they are posting *EVERY ROUND* to their mentee so they can use the boost.

Now I'd have to look over a list of factions to make sure a Baron / Overlord group can use an extra fancy?

[Claire Gallows]

First impression questions:

How easy will it be to keep track of this and where would it hypothetically be listed?

How do we police abuse of it when someone declares multiple alts to the same baron/OL and intentionally throws all of them into a room at once for the sake of getting another mod?

Do we run the risk of unfairly rewarding cliquey behavior since a baron/OL can deny the loyalty bid?

Does it only apply at the start of the next cycle? Follow up, if a baron/OL is deposed mid-cycle and someone has to realign, do they miss out on that mod until the next cycle?

At first I also wanted to ask if this would unfairly weight someone who was say, a Commoner by tacking on another mod to squire and talon mods. But then I realized that ehhhhhhhhhhhhh the impact of mods has me shrugging in general.

[Spell]

How do we police abuse of it when someone declares multiple alts to the same baron/OL and intentionally throws all of them into a room at once for the sake of getting another mod?

[Claire Gallows]

How do we police abuse of it when someone declares multiple alts to the same baron/OL and intentionally throws all of them into a room at once for the sake of getting another mod?

LOOKIN' AT YOU BUB.

Kidding.

Maybe.

[Spell]

How do we police abuse of it when someone declares multiple alts to the same baron/OL and intentionally throws all of them into a room at once for the sake of getting another mod?

LOOKIN' AT YOU BUB.

Kidding.

Maybe.

It's even more awkward since you can't always police who is an same-player-alt group or not. The honor system can only go so far, and even then wouldn't it be considered cross role play? Sure it's already known in DoM / DoF you can't mentor your own alt (I believe). But you can give yourself your own squire weapon if you're a baron in DoS.

Edit: If this is a way to just add a mentor system to DoS that goes beyond the normal squireship.. Why not just do as DoM and DoF does? A warlord can have a mentee, but the Warlord would be required to be there for the bonus to work; unlike squires who have a weapon that allows them their fancy. That would be the difference between the two. Mentee: Requires a Warlord for Fancy. Squire: Weapon needs to be used for fancy, does not require the baron (Or Overlord if that is happening) to be in the room with you.

[Sylus Kurgen]

... so if I get this right..

Overlord and Baron gain no benefit from this. It's their supporters only?

No, The Baron and the OL gain the extra Fancy as well.

[Spell]

... so if I get this right..

Overlord and Baron gain no benefit from this. It's their supporters only?

No, The Baron and the OL gain the extra Fancy as well.

Hopefully they would be unable to use it vs anyone GM and lower and be stuck with a cap of 4.

[Sabine]

Edit: If this is a way to just add a mentor system to DoS that goes beyond the normal squireship.. Why not just do as DoM and DoF does? A warlord can have a mentee, but the Warlord would be required to be there for the bonus to work; unlike squires who have a weapon that allows them their fancy. That would be the difference between the two. Mentee: Requires a Warlord for Fancy. Squire: Weapon needs to be used for fancy, does not require the baron (Or Overlord if that is happening) to be in the room with you.

I really like this.

[Sylus Kurgen]

First impression questions:

How easy will it be to keep track of this and where would it hypothetically be listed?

How do we police abuse of it when someone declares multiple alts to the same baron/OL and intentionally throws all of them into a room at once for the sake of getting another mod?

Do we run the risk of unfairly rewarding cliquey behavior since a baron/OL can deny the loyalty bid?

Does it only apply at the start of the next cycle? Follow up, if a baron/OL is deposed mid-cycle and someone has to realign, do they miss out on that mod until the next cycle?

At first I also wanted to ask if this would unfairly weight someone who was say, a Commoner by tacking on another mod to squire and talon mods. But then I realized that ehhhhhhhhhhhhh the impact of mods has me shrugging in general.

Colors added by me to address them in sequence:
1. My thoughts are on the standings using the same colors for the Titles.

2. This is why it's coming to public debate. Very few people can play 2 characters in a room at the same time, let alone 3 or more. I'd like to think a player isn't that desperate for a cheap mod bonus. We're a free, text-based, roleplaying game, does a person really need to borderline cheat?

3. The right to deny loyalty is more meant to reflect the relationship between the Overlord and the Barons and extend that between the rest of the ranks.

My initial thoughts for this were that the Barons declare their alignment to the OL, and then Warlord and under declare their alignment to the Barons. Those Barons who are loyal to the OL, the under-Ranks are then loyal to the OL by proxy. This can be reworked to better reflect the initial idea. However I thought it good that duelists can align with the OL direct instead of Barons as well. Just opens the floor a bit.

Risk rewarding clique-y behavior is something we run with group alignment ideas like this in general. So what is a good counter-measure? Take away the option to deny?

Does it only apply at the start of the next cycle? Follow up, if a baron/OL is deposed mid-cycle and someone has to realign, do they miss out on that mod until the next cycle?

Yes. The question to this comes back to, for me, am I aligning with a Baron just for the Mod...or is it because I enjoy playing with this group? Why am I declaring this loyalty? Why would my character do it?

Edit:

... so if I get this right..

Overlord and Baron gain no benefit from this. It's their supporters only?

No, The Baron and the OL gain the extra Fancy as well.

Hopefully they would be unable to use it vs anyone GM and lower and be stuck with a cap of 4.

I've come back to this now and again. OL and Baron have this all ready when dueling other Barons and Warlords, for me I don't see any reason why that cap doesn't remain intact despite the extra Fancy from having supporters present.

[Kalamere]

Still wrapping my mind around parts of this and I think some of the concerns are pretty valid. One quick things though:

On the one hand, Spell's question about this being a way to work in a sort of global mentoring program as DoF/DoM have is an interesting take on the system and sorta makes me like it more. DoS has traditionally been opposed to adopting that type of mentorship over the squire route for various reasons, but I think this is sorta an interesting backdoor for it.

On the other hand, a couple other recent threads have spoken to the downside of boons based on affiliation as well as the problems a truly new duelist faces. So, while many will take advantage of this and gain their +1 mod for a given night - someone who is either truly new and therefor ignorant of the system or who is playing the type of character who simply would not affiliate, is going to be at a disadvantage.

Not that it makes the caller's lives any easier on this score - but I wonder if it would work to grant this extra mod only in duels against higher ranked characters. So, swordsman vs swordsman remains 1 mod each, regardless of affiliations. Swordsman with the affiliation boon vs a Master-at-Arms though would gain the benefit and be at 2 mods, while the M@A wouldn't and therefore stays at 2.

[G]

How to be equal to Warlord in one single night.

Win the Talon of Redwin. Get WoL for that (2-3 wins)
You're now a Swordsman +1 Fancy
With the Talon +1 Fancy
Get a friend who is a Baron to make you Squire. +1 Fancy
Align to that Baron +1 Fancy.

You're now equal to Warlord with extremely little effort.

Extreme case? Maybe, I mean it depends on winning the Talon. But otherwise it's pretty easy to just be equal to GM. 3 fancies are nice. This is how I mean by giving fancies to everything would be devaluing ranks.

[Addie]

How to be equal to Warlord in one single night.

Win the Talon of Redwin. Get WoL for that (2-3 wins)
You're now a Swordsman +1 Fancy
With the Talon +1 Fancy
Get a friend who is a Baron to make you Squire. +1 Fancy
Align to that Baron +1 Fancy.

You're now equal to Warlord with extremely little effort.

Extreme case? Maybe, I mean it depends on winning the Talon. But otherwise it's pretty easy to just be equal to GM. 3 fancies are nice. This is how I mean by giving fancies to everything would be devaluing ranks.

As it stands now, you can go into a Talon tournament as a 2 WoL swordsman, pick up 3 WoL for the tourney plus the talon mod. Pick up a squireship around the same time the tourney bumps you to 5 WoL M@A and you end up with 4 fancies up from 1 in like a week or two.

<<Case in point.

Exceptions aren't rules but yeah, gotta consider the extremes just in case.

[Spell]

How to be equal to Warlord in one single night.

Win the Talon of Redwin. Get WoL for that (2-3 wins)
You're now a Swordsman +1 Fancy
With the Talon +1 Fancy
Get a friend who is a Baron to make you Squire. +1 Fancy
Align to that Baron +1 Fancy.

You're now equal to Warlord with extremely little effort.

Extreme case? Maybe, I mean it depends on winning the Talon. But otherwise it's pretty easy to just be equal to GM. 3 fancies are nice. This is how I mean by giving fancies to everything would be devaluing ranks.

How to be equal to Warlord in one single night.

[Sylus Kurgen]

How to be equal to Warlord in one single night.

Win the Talon of Redwin. Get WoL for that (2-3 wins)
You're now a Swordsman +1 Fancy
With the Talon +1 Fancy
Get a friend who is a Baron to make you Squire. +1 Fancy
Align to that Baron +1 Fancy.

You're now equal to Warlord with extremely little effort.

Extreme case? Maybe, I mean it depends on winning the Talon. But otherwise it's pretty easy to just be equal to GM. 3 fancies are nice. This is how I mean by giving fancies to everything would be devaluing ranks.

A Warlord keeps their mods because they put in the effort, the mod from Talon is fleeting, just like the mod for the Factions. The Faction Mod, the Talon Mod, these can be lost in a single night. Baron gets deposed, all of their followers lose the mod, and the Squire might not be asked to stay on with the new title holder. Talon tries to defend and gets knocked out, there goes the mod. They fluctuate cycle to cycle.

Extreme cases are there, but we also have checks and balances along with them. This is also why these are brought to public debate, what are the flaws? What are the loopholes to be fixed?

Factions, Talon, Squires, Barons, the Overlord. I like ideas that feed into and support other aspects of the game with almost a sense of automation.

Also look at the roleplay side to this in regards to Renegade loyalty and political play. Examples,

I'm the Overlord, I know who's loyal to me and who is renegade. These are alignments I need to give a damn about because it means I need to pay attention to what's going on with my loyal barons. Now with the Factions, I have to look at the loyal supporters to those barons. Which Warlords are loyal to which camp? Who could come up and throw down my loyals.

I'm a Baron. I have a healthy faction of supporters, but I have a Renegade rival. How might they try to break up my faction?

This political intrigue is Arena meat and potatoes, the original draw of the sport.

I could just be crazy and be completely off base.