DoS Thursdays Moves to the RDI

[Rhaine]

Please keep in mind, that Flash chat is ridiculously slow, which is really likely to scare off users that don't have awesomely fast internet connection. AIM/AOL doesn't require fast internet, and Flash chat without at least 56K connection (and better yet, 128 K) is a killer. Standard dialup and Flash chat turn into awesomely slow, frustrating and user-FIENDLY experience, I know this first-hand. So in fact, many AIM users would be losing this day entirely if switched into flash chat.

Just my 2 cents
-----------------------------
The old Linux hag behind Rhaine

[Deluthan]

But how is this fair to RoH players??? To me, that basically says, "You want to duel tonight? Come here, or don't duel."

You haven't provided a valid argument as to why this is not fair to RoH players. We're asking them to use the RDI FlashChat as their mode of chat, which is no better or worse than asking them to use AIM or AOL. It takes less effort to register in the RDI forum than downloading/installing AIM and registering an AIM name (one you can find available). You say you're already registered in the RDI, so the transition should be no problem for you, so whom is this unfair to?

In fact, I would argue the opposite. Asking RoH players to continue dueling in empty AIM rooms seems rather unfair when they could be dueling in the RDI Flashchat where they are pretty much guaranteed to find an opponent.

I have a character I'm trying to move up in rank in DoF, and I have yet to have a problem finding an opponent in DoF on Monday nights. It's so nice that I actually try to make time to duel then. I don't do the same for Tuesday or Wednesday, because whenever I check the room, there's no one there except maybe an Emerald or two.

If you really want the duels out of RDI, then I have a challenge for you: Make it so that duel and new-player activity during AIM-hosted shifts surpasses the activity level we see in the RDI-hosted shifts. Manage that, then we'll talk.

Regarding getting our banners up on other RP sites, this is not as easy a task as it sounds. There is a lot of RP venues out there, so many that getting players has become a competitive ordeal. RP sites are in one of two categories: either they're desperate for players, in which case we would see very slim to no crossover; or they're thriving, in which case building relationships with other RP sites isn't a big concern for them--and a relationship with RoH would be altruistic on their part, unless they anticipate our players migrating to them. The RDI is the one exception, because we share the same setting.

[Deluthan]

Please keep in mind, that Flash chat is ridiculously slow, which is really likely to scare off users that don't have awesomely fast internet connection. AIM/AOL doesn't require fast internet, and Flash chat without at least 56K connection (and better yet, 128 K) is a killer. Standard dialup and Flash chat turn into awesomely slow, frustrating and user-FIENDLY experience, I know this first-hand. So in fact, many AIM users would be losing this day entirely if switched into flash chat.

This is a big concern the staff has had, and we will be watching this closely after we go live with FlashChat as to what effect this will have.

Unfortunately, we've reached a crossroads where we have to choose between sticking it out with AIM, or going with FlashChat, where there is the potential to bring in more players with the risk of segregating some of the current players. We're at the point where we feel the risk is necessary.

[Anjolie Quinn]

This might be slightly off-topic, but it made me think.

Will the FC still be open this evening even with Topaz's challenge?

There are alot of challenges going on right now and it seems in the best interest of the DoS to be recruiting people to be in support of the Barons and Challengers right now, doesn't it?

Just a thought... I'm gonna pay attention to my lecture now...

[G]

This might be slightly off-topic, but it made me think.

Will the FC still be open this evening even with Topaz's challenge?

There are alot of challenges going on right now and it seems in the best interest of the DoS to be recruiting people to be in support of the Barons and Challengers right now, doesn't it?

Just a thought... I'm gonna pay attention to my lecture now...

I don't see why not, really. I know the challenge is taking place in the Annex, but the FC in the Arena on the RDI. Without doubt the RDI will be happening. Without doubt the Challenge is going to happen. So I'm sure both will be going on. It's just no official duels will take place on AIM other than the challenge with Druid calling it. Roman and Imp will be calling in the RDI Arena.

[Billy]

I'd certainly prefer the challenge to be in the FC (a nice way to introduce DoSS), but I don't think Topaz will agree to that.

[Scorched Druid]

I've let the post sit for a day or more and came back to see some of the same points being argued on both sides, so I'll sum up as best I can the arguments so far.

FlashChat is rediculously slow for Dial-up users.

- Rhaine

Because of that small factor, it is realistic to say that RoH will lose players in the move to FC. Gnimish even stated he won't sign up for flashchat and he's a former Overlord. Its the same argument for the RDI people who won't download AIM/AOL. Its free now isnt' it? Why not compromise? We can register there, they can download a version of AIM. Both groups need to meet in the middle somewhere.

RDI needs RoH, RoH needs RDI

- Wyheree

This isn't necessarily true. The RDI's numbers grow almost daily, RoH is dying. We need it, not the other way around. Rings of Honor need the RDI player base to survive, and the only thing we have to offer interest is our mini-game. The Duels were originally a side-attraction. Rhdyin and the Nexus was the game. Somewhere the duels became the center of focus. Not Rhydin.

Registering over Downloading

Myself, Cory, Deluthan, Gnimish, etc...

I already voiced this argument. Why can't both sides meet in the middle?

RDI folks duel while RoH is at the Inn, no other time.

- Myself, Billy, Deluthan.

This is my biggest apprehension about holding dueling regularly at the RDI. Good numbers while we go to THEIR comfort zone.

Lack of RESPECT from RDI players over duelists and ranks.

- Cory, Wyheree

This is another problem we face, yes Wyheree brought up cross-posting, but that won't make the RDI playerbase acknowledge the respect given to a title holder from RoH. A post expresses a SL and OOC KNOWLEDGE. Unless you have a character involved in that SL or hear about it in play, that character won't know what the titles mean or if they're significant. Like Jewel being referred to as an Empress. Its the same concept.

Under that same vein of thought Wyheree brought up how hard it is for new players to be integrated into the DoS ranks. This is simple as both sides of the fense do this. Swords is the RoH's elitist group. RDI has its fair share of Elitists. You don't play with these people or get along with these people, you don't matter. (RDI). You haven't beaten this person so many times, you haven't lasted this long in a match against so-and-so, you don't matter. (RoH) - I could name characters that keep this type of thing going, but that will only add fuel to a fire that shouldn't even be lit.

I've seen another trend most of you have been doing with argued points. Each of you latches onto a certain part and ignore everything else the person said. This keeps many aspects from being pointed out and kept on the table, while the personal interest points get slung back and forth.

It should also be stated that RoH is nothing like it used to be in its infancy stage. Many of the older players want to return to the golden age of this place when Rhydin and the Nexus was why we played. Now, it seems the biggest reason many play is the duels. Not the characters or the possible story lines. Its the Rank they want. The rest doesn't matter.

This is a problem with some of the new(er) duelists. They see Barons, Warlords, and the Overlord bickering over who did what, when, and in how many rounds. And there's a push to make rank advancement easier. I'll say it now. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE RANKS.

Its about the possible SL's that can be built around working towards something. Vanion has his SL going with the Temple of Myr'kul (sp?) it took him years to get all 4 Towers in DoM just to get halfway done with that SL. This is what the "game" is for. It's supposed to be a tool to help promote Role-Play. - I know many will think using him as a positive example is blasphemy but I don't give a rat's ass.

The other problem is that both Forums have their own individual histories. It will be impossible to bridge that gap. If this was the 80's I'd say RoH is the East Coast Rappers, RDI is the West Coast. We have our Ice T's, Cube's, Dre's. RDI has its Tupac's Snoop Dog's, and Biggie's. ( bad analogy I'm sure)

And I'll bring up the final point that Gnimish mentioned. This is one I feel we all need to focus on.

As for promoting "the game"...maybe that's the problem. Druid is right, this is an age with games like World of Warcraft, which I play by the way, and competing with that for people's time is just going to end badly of course. But from where I'm sitting this isn't a "gaming community" it's a "Roleplaying Community". I don't come here JUST to play a game, if dueling was ALL there was to be done I wouldn't even bother. There's a lot more to the RoH community, and that's why I also think duel logs are a poor way of determining attendance and participation. In short, I wouldn't present the game, I'd present the community.

Instead of presenting our "game", we need to present the Rings of Honor Community. Rhydin and the Nexus is the common ground between RDI and RoH. THAT is the game we all play. The Duels are just a mini-game to help promote interest in RoH. IT IS NOT THE GAME.

There are old-time players that won't come and duel because its on AIM/AOL, we have old-time players that won't RP because of FC. One gains, the other loses. No one should lose. In the move to FC, DoM will remain on AIM according to I think it was Matt or Deluthan. Right there means that DoM will continue to be on AIM unless Brigath says otherwise. The RDI folks want to duel in magic, they'd better get used to AIM/AOL.

Matt has said it, I've said it, Cory has brought it up.

Rings of Honor needs the Red Dragon Inn, It doesn't need us.

Anyone that says different really hasn't looked at the numbers and amount of active posting going on in both. The duel charts are not an accurate way to judge who is where during a shift. They just show who dueled. Not who was in the room and role playing.

There's my next 2 cents.

[Scorched Druid]

I'd certainly prefer the challenge to be in the FC (a nice way to introduce DoSS), but I don't think Topaz will agree to that.

- Billy

That and I have no experience calling in Flash Chat, that'll cause problems as I even have issues while ROLEPLAYING there. To call would be and deal with bad connections would be horrific.

[Koyliak]

I don't duel in DoS except once in a blue moon so not commenting on the specifics of moving to Thursday, I'd like to put in a few thoughts on the broader issues at hand as a member of the RoH community.

For me personally, I've enjoyed the cross-over with the RDI that's been happening. I've always been more interested in the RP aspects that dueling presents (including spectating) more than just dueling so maybe that's why I'm not bothered as much by it. I also feel that although it's important to have people around who will actually duel on a given night, people who are only there for RPing shouldn't be criticized as not participating.

Change is scary. I remember when we were making the move from AOL and I didn't know what to expect. Now I can't imagine missing AOL. I think it's good for people to use this space to talk about their concerns about moving to FC. It's OK to disagree about what's best.

What's not OK in my opinion is taking all of the administrators and hosts who volunteer to provide us with a place to play for granted. The fact that people are willing to take the time to constantly search for new ways to improve our community never ceases to amaze me.

No one is trying to punish any member of the RoH.

These decisions are based on a group of people dedicated to doing what they believe is best for all of us. It's fine to bring other aspects of the situation to the table for discussion but at some point a decision needs to be made. I can't think of a better group to make that call than the people who so selflessly keep things running smoothly around here.

It might not be a fool proof plan but it's not one that comes out of a desire to ruin this community. It's an attempt to change for the better.

There are always going to be risks. Not doing anything could risk RoH dying out.

There's so much negativity going on that I just wanted to take the time out to say I feel lucky that we have these people here who care enough to try.

[Topaz]

I'd certainly prefer the challenge to be in the FC (a nice way to introduce DoSS), but I don't think Topaz will agree to that.

Asking could have been easily done. It's usually not a good idea to assume. That being said, of course I would have declined. FC to me is a failsure way to get a head ache within 30 minutes or less. I don't go out of my way to get one of those unless what comes with it truly is worth one to me, and I certainly wouldn't feel any more inclined to get one when Topaz is to defend a title. That would be counterproductive.

[Imp]

I hear all this talk about being so difficult to call duels in the flash chat. I have called duels before in the RDI FC in the exhibition nights. I'm not one that goes to the chat often, maybe once in a while. That being said, I was a bit scared last night.

I had a full room all night, people dueled, people roleplayed. Most of my duels were from RoH players. I only had three new RDI players last night and I found calling the duels with FC no different from calling with AOL. I don't use AIM for calling duels because I log my chats using AOL. I put the little IM windows all over the screen, like I do with AOL. The only thing that was annoying were the little windows disappearing when the player punts, but I hear that won't be the case with our FC. So I'm not worried.

From a caller point of view, it was no big deal for me.

[Billy]

In the move to FC, DoM will remain on AIM according to I think it was Matt or Deluthan. Right there means that DoM will continue to be on AIM unless Brigath says otherwise. The RDI folks want to duel in magic, they'd better get used to AIM/AOL.

I believe when our FC goes live, all three duels will be moving to it. I think what Del was referring to was that we won't be showcasing a DoM shift in the RDI FC.

[Amaltea]

I believe when our FC goes live, all three duels will be moving to it. I think what Del was referring to was that we won't be showcasing a DoM shift in the RDI FC.

That's exactly right.

[Deluthan]

In the move to FC, DoM will remain on AIM according to I think it was Matt or Deluthan. Right there means that DoM will continue to be on AIM unless Brigath says otherwise. The RDI folks want to duel in magic, they'd better get used to AIM/AOL.

I believe when our FC goes live, all three duels will be moving to it. I think what Del was referring to was that we won't be showcasing a DoM shift in the RDI FC.

Actually I think it was Matt.

[Goldglo]

Yes, it was me re: the DoM in the RDI thing.

Yeah, the disappearing IM windows won't be an issue with the RoH FC (and I think it's also going to be fixed on the RDI side).

For RoH's FC, there will also be a duel calling tool that the officials will use; even if the official punts, the duel will automatically save so that when the caller comes back, the duel results recorded thus far will restore as if the caller never punted or left.

Another bonus thing (and this is going to be more beneficial for DoF, I think, because I know we've had long-running standings update issues), we'll be able to automate the standings for all the sports, so there'll be a virtual elimination of update-delays.

I've also been made aware of a client (AJAX) that can interface with the FlashChat but that's not flash-based, and which can seriously cut down on the resource-sapping for those whose computers don't like FC so well. And on the FC front, there's a program you can download, separately from your browser, to access the chat; essentially, you don't need IE, Firefox, or whatever browswer you prefer to access FC.