an OOC explanation to an IC posting...

[Panther]

last night I posted this... http://www.ringsofhonor.org/forums/view ... hp?t=20579
where Panther posted a notice that the RDI will no longer host Swords events in the RDI.

This was his IC reaction to an exchange in the RDI last night between Cory and Panther....

you can go check the logs... http://rdi.dragonsmark.com/chatlogs/
It should be from around 11pm to 1am overnight last night.

Anywho... the jist of it was Cory accused Panther of abandoning the Duels in favor of the Inn, said that the events did nothing to help bring folks to the duels, and that "As long as I am Overlord the duels will no longer support the Red Dragon."

Panth's response was.. basically fine... if it's not doing what it was intended to do... why continue.

So.... that was Panth's IC response to this... OOC, as G pointed out, as long as the coordinators here wish to hold the events, the RDI will continue to host them.

[Kairee]

I won't go into what I see as pretty blatant blending and immature RP but I do have some thoughts about the Duels and the RDI.

Back in the day, we created an area for Dueling outside of the RDI chat because the duels were disruptive to the play therein and the play therein took away from the focus on the duels themselves. It was confusing for everyone.

However, having a close association and in the promoting of RP in the Duels and discussing the Duels in the RDI allowed significant "cross-pollination."

If the duels stand on their own, soon all you will attract are the hard core duelists. The ranks will thin and it will become too cliquey and hard for new duelists to break in and actually achieve any rank and have the challenge of fighting others at the same level.

Encouraging the Inn's populace to attend the duels and talk about the results in the Inn will entice others with interest to go and give it a try.

So, for dueling nights at the RDI, why not have a room pop-up called the RDI Basement and let the duels take place there? Have the hosts, if any are working in the RDI, promote the duels. Have someone IM the RDI the current scores periodically and the RDI can announce it.. sort of like a sports bar.

Have the duels at the RDI basement be on a regular schedule.

Over time, this will, IMHO, have the intended effects.

Just some thoughts.

[Billy]

I think it makes for an interesting IC turn. The DoS staff now trying to unseat the Overlord.

[Tera Destre]

In my experience the monthly dueling events are now something that are looked forward to in the Inn. Everyone seems to really enjoy them and we have great turn outs for them. More people are actually trying the duels at the events now than they used to.

I used to have to duel myself the first duel to get people to try them. This month's event I didn't have to. They started on their own. The progress is slow but I am seeing progress.

However there still remains the problem of the number of players being down and people not staying in the rooms and playing. So when someone does show interest and they come over to duel they find an empty room and IM me with "Is it always like this?" I get to IM them back with something like "Well no usually people will come by and stay if they see someone is playing."

[Deluthan]

However there still remains the problem of the number of players being down and people not staying in the rooms and playing. So when someone does show interest and they come over to duel they find an empty room and IM me with "Is it always like this?" I get to IM them back with something like "Well no usually people will come by and stay if they see someone is playing."

I have a suggestion regarding this for all callers.

Ask the person if they have a friend online they can bring in for a quick duel, even if that friend doesn't like role-play. Who knows, the friend may end up liking it.

It may also be worth asking when there is only one new player and a bunch of veteran duelers in the room to choose from.

[Gnimish Gnimoi]

If the duels stand on their own, soon all you will attract are the hard core duelists. The ranks will thin and it will become too cliquey and hard for new duelists to break in and actually achieve any rank and have the challenge of fighting others at the same level.

I know we've discussed this before, and I'll admit I haven't been "back" for very long, but I'll tell you right now that as far as I can see this is already sort of taking place. If I were a new RPer I'm fairly sure that the duels would be the last place I'd want to be for my first RPing experiences.

Heck, even as an "old-timer" coming back from a long absence I've found it to be quite a difference experience to "get into" things as compared to how I remember it being, and I have the benefit of knowing at least half of the current dueling populace from the old days. I can only imagine some new RPer trying to "break in" so to speak. Especially when a large chunk of the "conversations" taking place are really closed SL type things. (Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that stuff, mind you! Don't get me wrong.)

So yeah, mixing in with the Inn crowd can only be a good thing in my humble opinion.

[Amaltea]

So yeah, mixing in with the Inn crowd can only be a good thing in my humble opinion.

Unlike the duels where we have a schedule, the Inn is open 24/7, so it's easier to go there and mingle with the locals. Make friends, start stories, then - hopefully - they'll come looking for you in the duels.

[Gnimish Gnimoi]

Yep. that's the other side of the coin.

Ask the person if they have a friend online they can bring in for a quick duel, even if that friend doesn't like role-play. Who knows, the friend may end up liking it.

Oh, and I know this is kinda taboo...but seeing as though lots of callers have multiple non-caller characters, would it be such a bad thing if a new player came in and there wasn't anyone else around if the caller brought in one of their alts and dueled the fellow? Would at least get the ball rolling for the guy and heck even give a nice morale-boosting first win. I guess that sounds rather desperate, hah.

[Anjolie Quinn]

::Puts two pennies down on the table::

Okay, here goes:

1. I am neither here nor there on the participation of the Duels in the RDI. I do think that it's sad to see so many people there and, like last night, so few people in the Outback. I will admit that the environment of the RDI is extremely new-user friendly. Flashchat probably also helps to set that scene despite my personal favoritism of AOL/AIM formatting.

2. Despite my wanting for new players to join the duels, I do want them seperate. I don't want there to be days whenever Flashchat is my only option.

3. I actually do use my characters at the RDI to try and coax people into joining up at the duels. Why? Because I love t3h dueling. I prefer the atmosphere of having something to do other than drinking or sitting by the hearth. There actually is *tons* of RP in the dueling rooms. In fact, the callers often yell at us to see if somebody is actually going to duel, so I don't think we're lacking in that department.

4. I know that the RDI site is more fun. There are more people, more options, and more direction connections. I know nobody is setting up a competition, but I'd be lying if I said that I felt RoH and RDI were playing with equal ammo.

I understand that it's possible RoH is merely an accessory to the RDI. Up until about the last year it didn't feel like that. It felt like its own entity, but now it feels as if we're being merged for the sake of supporting the RDI. I have nothing against the RDI, but I think the RoH has alot more it can give that just isn't being utilized.

And last, but far from least...

5. I honestly think it's time to flesh out the roles of the ranks. To some people the Duels serve as nothing more than a sport in RhyDin. I agree with this to some extent. I think the Leagues are a perfect example of different sports and teams with the rotating schedules and seasons. That being said, I personally would like to learn more about the purpose of giving "Baron" titles and "Overlord" title. If they aren't there to help govern the sport, then what's the point? Isn't that how various 'reigns' are defined? If they hold no sway over any particular matter then it seems worthless to even have the ranks.

For instance: Xenograg is extremely well respected for being a great Overlord. He was noble and fair and people obviously thought he did a great job looking over the DoS during his reign. Does that make it more than just MVP of a football team or not? If that's all it is then I think it should be outlined somewhere. That Overlords, Diamonds, and Archmages are merely MVPs and do not necessarily holding any real power.

Thus ends my two cents... ::retrieves pennies::

[Wyheree]

Speaking as someone who is new to the duels, I can say it is hard to break in. Most of the duelers have played together for years, and it's intimidating to wander into that - it's like being the new kid in high school.

I did start coming to duel after Fists came to the RDI in June. I started with Magic because that's what I play, and have slowly branched into the other areas. My record's not the best, but I keep on trying - I really enjoy it. But, I can see where someone not as persistent as I am would get discouraged. Whenever I go to duel Swords, the room is usually mostly Warlords and Barons - quite scary for a newcomer. Magic isn't as intimidating as Swords in that regard, and I haven't yet seen Fists - though I plan to stop by tonight!

Anyway - I just wanted to post and say the Inn events do help bring in duelers from the Inn. I'm still plugging away after 3 months.

[Gnimish Gnimoi]

5. I honestly think it's time to flesh out the roles of the ranks. To some people the Duels serve as nothing more than a sport in RhyDin. I agree with this to some extent. I think the Leagues are a perfect example of different sports and teams with the rotating schedules and seasons. That being said, I personally would like to learn more about the purpose of giving "Baron" titles and "Overlord" title. If they aren't there to help govern the sport, then what's the point? Isn't that how various 'reigns' are defined? If they hold no sway over any particular matter then it seems worthless to even have the ranks.

This was actually a topic of debate as long ago as Gnimish's reign as Overlord, and I can only assume even before that. For the most part the role of the titles has been purely an RP tool. Heck, the Overlord Grant that's around nowadays is about 1000x as much "power" as Overlords had way back when, honestly.

....Well, aside from the ability to banish Barons to Renegade, something that I wouldn't know anything about...honest.

[Cory]

I have to say I, as a player, agree and strongly disagree with some of the points made.

First and foremost: I've seen the Duels close down in favor of the RDI events. Meaning there is no caller present in the AOL/AIM rooms. To me it feels like we cater to the RDI rather than dueling. Not many of our players like the new Flashchat system (I am one of them.) And as I understand the RDI still exsists on the AOL Free-Forum Gaming.

Solution: How about closing down the RDI Flashchat and directing people to come play in the Arena/Outback/Twilight Isle? That seems fair to me, since we do that to our players.

Secondly: It was said I blended the lines between IC and OOC. I have to say that is utter BS. When I'm in character. I remain in character. Saying that was immature was just a crock. It makes me sick.

IC- Cory has seen little to no increase (anywhere from 1 or 2) to new duelers and sees these events as a lost cause despite hearing about "so many are interested in joining".

Back to OOC- Furthermore, if these people are so instrumental in keeping the Duels going, where are they? Oh... yeah.. they'd rather spend time with their baby the RDI. Where are these people that are SO interested in joining the duels? I can count on one hand the number of people that have made the leap, but have seen nights in the RDI where I'd need both hands, and toes and then some to keep up. The RDI is thriving, but we continue to struggle.

Third: I've seen NO mention of Iron Fists League, or Team Dueling Leauge on the RDI site. We all know the Leagues are struggling right along with us, but little to nothing is being done. The RDI seems like a great place to draw in new players. Still... we bend over backwards to take us to them. Bring THEM to US.

This next point I'm going to make loud and clear. I've seen this too often.

To those older players that have been around longer (and returning):

GET OVER YOURSELVES!

Just because "you've been here since the start" doesn't make you any better. We're all on a level field. You are the ones shooing away players with your "I'm better than you" attitude. Personally, I've seen Xenograg and Amaltea actually welcome new players. Otherwise, it's as stated above.

Fourth: I hope this opens some eyes. We need the help more than the RDI does. This has me so irrate that I'm going to have a beer and smoke a pack of cigarettes.

Jeremy.

[Gnimish Gnimoi]

IC- Cory has seen little to no increase (anywhere from 1 or 2) to new duelers and sees these events as a lost cause despite hearing about "so many are interested in joining".

It's a slow process, I'm sure. But some good HAS come of it, Wyheree who has posted on this thread comes to mind as a good example of a quality person that has been attracted to the RoH thanks to the RDI project. We can't expect people to come in droves right off the bat.

Third: I've seen NO mention of Iron Fists League, or Team Dueling Leauge on the RDI site. We all know the Leagues are struggling right along with us, but little to nothing is being done. The RDI seems like a great place to draw in new players. Still... we bend over backwards to take us to them. Bring THEM to US.

I can't speak as to the state of the leagues since I haven't played in one for like 9 years, but when I went to peek in on the DoF finals the other night there was like 27 people or something there.

This next point I'm going to make loud and clear. I've seen this too often.

To those older players that have been around longer (and returning):

GET OVER YOURSELVES!

Just because "you've been here since the start" doesn't make you any better. We're all on a level field. You are the ones shooing away players with your "I'm better than you" attitude. Personally, I've seen Xenograg and Amaltea actually welcome new players. Otherwise, it's as stated above.

I guess I don't know who this is referring to specifically, but I haven't seen anyone purposefully "shooing away players" with this "I'm better than you" attitude you're referring to. Now if you're just talking about IC personalities. (Gnimish being grouchy or...hm...who else can I pick on...Cassius being snooty.) then sorry, but that's how it is I guess. I would hope that anyone who comes to the RoH rooms and is an RPer or interested in RPing would understand the difference.

[JewellRavenlock]

The whole point in having the Duels come to the RDI in the first place was to garner interest in the Duels NOT the RDI.

[Panther]

::Puts two pennies down on the table::

Okay, here goes:

1. I am neither here nor there on the participation of the Duels in the RDI. I do think that it's sad to see so many people there and, like last night, so few people in the Outback. I will admit that the environment of the RDI is extremely new-user friendly. Flashchat probably also helps to set that scene despite my personal favoritism of AOL/AIM formatting.

keep in mind... Cory, IC, asked Panther if he would close the RDI down for a night and hold an event in the Outback...

IC, he said no, OOC, I'm not sure that it would work either. I don't have hard figures but I know a number of our regulars do not have AOL or AIM. Their messenger of choice is either MSN or Yahoo. That is one of the reasons, despite some nagging bugs/issues, that I chose FlashChat over AIM/AOL chat. So to close for a night to hold an event that either is not accessable, or would require someone to install AIM... I don't see as a viable option. Second... despite the overall acceptance of the dueling events.... there are those who do not like the disruption. Being a once-a-month only event, there are 2-3 people that I know of that just don't come to the RDI on that night. This is why DoS moved out of the RDI in the first place.

2. Despite my wanting for new players to join the duels, I do want them seperate. I don't want there to be days whenever Flashchat is my only option.

3. I actually do use my characters at the RDI to try and coax people into joining up at the duels. Why? Because I love t3h dueling. I prefer the atmosphere of having something to do other than drinking or sitting by the hearth. There actually is *tons* of RP in the dueling rooms. In fact, the callers often yell at us to see if somebody is actually going to duel, so I don't think we're lacking in that department.

Even going back to AOL RDI, If a couple folks started a fight in the RDI I would use it as an opportunity to promote the duels. "You wanna settle this, take it to one of the rings!" sort of thing. The RDI folks now are very much used to taking any fights to the Back Alley that the specific situation just doesn't present itself as much. However, I do continue to see folks talking about the Duels IC, from items in the Oracle, to the latest Diamond Quest winner. And it's not just when someone "from the duels" comes in either. I don't know if they are following up with IMs to folks that don't know of the duels to point them here... but I would hope they do.

4. I know that the RDI site is more fun. There are more people, more options, and more direction connections. I know nobody is setting up a competition, but I'd be lying if I said that I felt RoH and RDI were playing with equal ammo.

I understand that it's possible RoH is merely an accessory to the RDI. Up until about the last year it didn't feel like that. It felt like its own entity, but now it feels as if we're being merged for the sake of supporting the RDI. I have nothing against the RDI, but I think the RoH has alot more it can give that just isn't being utilized.

People seem to have forgotten that a bit over a year ago we were lucky to get half-a-dozen people in out chat on any given night.

I don't have the answer as to why we've grown as quickly as we have... it's a combination of word of mouth... google adwords... and a few other things. I spend an average of $16 a month on Google advertising. I continue to do so because I know it's bringing folks in.

And last, but far from least...

5. I honestly think it's time to flesh out the roles of the ranks. To some people the Duels serve as nothing more than a sport in RhyDin. I agree with this to some extent. I think the Leagues are a perfect example of different sports and teams with the rotating schedules and seasons. That being said, I personally would like to learn more about the purpose of giving "Baron" titles and "Overlord" title. If they aren't there to help govern the sport, then what's the point? Isn't that how various 'reigns' are defined? If they hold no sway over any particular matter then it seems worthless to even have the ranks.

For instance: Xenograg is extremely well respected for being a great Overlord. He was noble and fair and people obviously thought he did a great job looking over the DoS during his reign. Does that make it more than just MVP of a football team or not? If that's all it is then I think it should be outlined somewhere. That Overlords, Diamonds, and Archmages are merely MVPs and do not necessarily holding any real power.

Thus ends my two cents... ::retrieves pennies::

IC, Panth did what he did out of respect for the Rank, the title... nothing more... nothing less.

From my perspective, there has been a continual battle to get folks to use the ranks.. the opals, the barons and such in RP. I think Koy did a wonderful job of incorporating her new opal in to her play at the RDI last night. Cory seems to do a good job at "playing" the Overlord... not a very likable one, but hey.. it's become a part of his character.

I dunno.. not sure I really had a point for all this other than to babble on a bit. that's what I get for posting while cooking dinner.